Tonight I read an article that had my blood boiling so much I had to drink 3 gallons of Gatorade G2 just to replace the water I lost. I read this post here which was the catalyst for my post here on DadsTalking. The short of it from Sue Scheff’s article is this:
“…an 13 year-old girl has been constantly teased, bullied, hazed, taunted by a group of bullies on the school bus. This young girl also suffers with cerebral palsy and has been the victim of having her ears twisted and actual open condoms placed on her head.
Her father, James Jones, understandably, had had enough. He goes into a tirade as he enters the bus and makes disturbing threats to harm the perpetrators.”
Check out the video of the tirade below:
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pvsVHdepsw&feature=related
I’m really interested to hear some other dads’ opinions on this. While I can’t rationally condone the fact that he threatened those children on that bus, emotionally I support him and my instincts would have been to do the same darn thing. I’ve had my daughter bullied in school and the teacher really didn’t do anything about it. We talked to the teacher about the bullying and because schools are so afraid of getting sued these days, some teachers are seemingly ineffectual when it comes to dealing with problem children. Maybe it’s just because so few parents are parenting these days and they just have so much babysitting to do rather than being able to focus on teaching. Whatever the case, AFTER I followed protocol AND had my daughter follow proper protocol – she told the “yard lady” what was going on, then the teacher and when nothing was done, my wife came in and talked to the teacher – being a martial artist for much of my life I set about the task of teaching my daughter how to give a bully the proper incentive to ensure said bully never touch her again. That is what I did and the next time the bully put her hands on my daughter, that is exactly what my daughter did. The bullying stopped that very day.
Back to the dad in the video, how far is too far? Is it ok to approach a child and threaten him after you’ve dotted all the “i’s” and crossed all the “t’s” and still nothing has been done to protect your child? Obviously, threatening to kill everyone on the bus is too much, but does a firm “if any of you bully my daughter further, you and your parents will be dealing with me personally” cross the line as well. How about saying on the bus, “if you bully her further you WILL be dealing with me!” In a culture where there are so many angry youths and seemingly so many ineffectual parents, how do we defend our daughters (and our sons for that matter) when no one else who is supposed to will?
Thoughts?
UPDATE: I couldn’t find this anywhere else but on one site. Interesting huh? Here’s the video of what happened that precipitated the father “losing it.” http://www.clickorlando.com/video/25044636/
A- He clearly went a little too far over the line.
B- Any dad that loves their child will be prepared, at some point, to step up in their defense. Im pretty mild mannered, but know in my heart that I’m capable of physical “defensive persuasion” if required to protect my family.
C- I bet in this case the bullying will stop.
Ummm, I’ll take “C” for a thousand Alex. 🙂
Man, I struggle with this one. I understand why a father would want to do this. I would want to do everything within my power and ability to protect my child. And it sounds like the system is failing them, so I recognize the frustration, and the impulse to take matters into your own hands. But I agree that he goes way too far. It’s not right to threaten a bus load of children. His actions are not justified.
I do however agree with your thoughts that empowering your own children to respond physically to bullying and threats is totally appropriate. My son is currently taking Karate, not because he’s been the victim of any sort of bullying or such. He participates because his Mama does it and it’s a cool activity. However, I would have no issue with him fighting back against a bully, if he was being victimized.
I don’t have any issue with your suggestion of “if any of you bully my daughter again, you and your parents will be dealing with me personally,” in principle. For me it’s a question of setting. Even that kind of ambiguous threat on a school bus full of kids seems problematic to me. I’m inferring from the video that he doesn’t know specifically who the bullies are, so he’s kind of handcuffed and I don’t have a specific better solution to offer. But there’s got to be a better way to identify and make the message clear to the perpetrators, and not accost a bus full of kids.
One of the most disturbing things to me is that after he gets off the bus, so many of the kids seem to laugh the whole thing off. That’s really troubling.
A very difficult situation all involved and I hope there’s a meaningful peaceful resolution for all involved before the situation turns tragic.
I know. This is definitely one of those very tough daddy, heck parental situations. It’s easy to look at this and armchair it but to be in the situation must’ve been very difficult.
Thanks for joining the dialogue here. Your thoughtful contribution is appreciated!
I do think he went a bit far and clearly he was not taken very seriously since the kids were laughing. However, I believe that part of the problem with our society these days is that people are too afraid to say anything to kids that are misbehaving or treating someone poorly. Kids that act this way know they can get away with it because they have never been stopped.
Furthermore, I will never forget the look on a childs face when you say something and confront them about the way they have been acting. It is total shock. I guess I don’t know if it really helps or not, but I guarantee you they think about it before they treat someone poorly or misbehave in public again. Personally, I think it is something that needs to be done. If you see this happening I think we need to confront these kids. The problem is that we don’t know the unknown. Do they have a gun? Will they react in a confrontational way?
Check out the bullying post my wife @motherlylaw posted this morning. http://bit.ly/9boCo6
Great post! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Will for your comment. I’ll check out the post from the Mrs.
I’ve had to chat with kids as well and they always have an odd look..that “Oh, I’m caught” look. When you approach them and are firm, parental and respectful, I’ve found they really respond positively.
Thanks for posting this article. I saw it last week and tweeted about it as well since like @TshakaZulu, I was incensed.
I can’t blame the father as well, especially when it seems like the guy tried to go through the proper channels and to see the school district once again drop the ball due to political correctness or some other lame ass excuse.
What is most disturbing to me is once again, a crowd of kids sits there while a fellow peer gets humiliated, abused and bullied and to top it off the victim is a student with special needs and clearly a target for bullies. For me, that’s almost worse than the actual bullying behavior. I said almost. To be a voyeur and bystander and just be willing to watch someone get tormented like this is incredibly disturbing to me.
Where is the empathy in today’s youth? Are they just sitting there like they’re watching a YouTube video or something? What has happening to the idea of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes or are kids just happy it’s not them being victimized.
The irony of course in all this is that the dad is being charged with a crime and the bully’s parents are playing victims now.
I agree Chris! It starts at home and I think there are many parents who are dropping the ball on instilling empathy and respect for others in the home. It’s unfortunate, but we have to look at how so many of divorcing parents treat each other in front of the children and see that maybe some of that come from those unfortunate situations.
This kind of goes back to my Vlog from last week where I talked about how we model behavior for our children. It’s so important to set the right example and then hope that our children will live that out outside the home.
I honestly don’t know how I would react, but I hope it wouldn’t be as over the top as the dad in the video.
I understand the desire to protect my kids, and I certainly understand rage, but what i saw was a continuation of the cycle – the biggest and scariest person wins. And let’s face it a truly motivated bully has now got “Your dads a psycho” added to the list of taunts.
So much of the bullying research looks at the by-standers. If the culture challenges the bully, then it doesn’t happen. Imagine the difference if dad had gotten on the bus and asked if the other kids would help stop the bullying from happening? If he had asked if the bus felt safe for all the other kids, and if not, why was it okay to just accept it?
My daughter is in the midst of a “friends not getting along” thing. All I hope is that she will challenge meanness directed at the other friend. They don’t have to like each other, but they do have to be civil. (They’re 7)
It’s a big topic, and this is just asmall comment, but rage is rage. It hurts everyone, even when it feels right and justified.
And in your daughters case, did the bully reform, or just pick a weaker target? Just askin, not judgin.
That’s a very fair and quite honestly, a question I didn’t consider at the time. I’ll ask my daughter as I’m now curious myself if that bully picked on anyone else after that. Unfortunately, my guess is that she did…and just picked a weaker target.
It wouldn’t have happened in front of my daughter though because she was actually very good about speaking up for others who were being victimized. Her and my youngest son both. My middle son is very mild mannered and getting him to speak up and speak out is something we’ve been working on with him from day one.
Thanks for the excellent question! It’s added another layer to the way I think about these things…one which I will consider when speaking and if this ever arises in my own home again.
Brian, that’s an excellent point you bring up regarding the bystander research. Asking the kids if they would help stop the bully is something I don’t think a lot of people would even consider doing, but I’d love to see how that would work.
Thanks for that point.
Our brains will tell us that this is too far, but our hearts won’t.
Those who have been bullied know how awful it is…and would never let that happen to our kids, especially our daughters.
I would have said something even if it wasn’t my child. I would never threaten kids because that would not set the example that I want to show. I would ask them why they would think its funny, call them out in front of all the other kids. Show kids that this is not the behavior that makes for good and respected adults. And if parents think their kids don’t need to hear it, I say I have every right to say what I want, just like they think they have every right to hurt others. And I would have a talking with parents too if they have a problem. Let get to the problem and change it…easier said than done. Some don’t want to hear others, cause they have built in prejudices for others, especially here in the USA.
We as parents are the disciplinarians. We cannot rely on others and school staff. If you allow your kid to swear at home, he may very well swear everywhere. If you allow them to hit others and not correct them right away, they see it as OK. If you don’t make them pick up after themselves, they may not pick up after them other places. Get the drift?
I have a thing about people disrespecting others. It’s happened to me more than once, and it’s ranged from color of skin, to age, to what car I drove, to have kids, and so on. People are really nasty out there, and the realization is that their behavior was not just given to them. They grew as children and created their own attitudes and views towards certain type of people. Like a rich kid treating a less fortunate kid like shit. Some parents teach it and accept it, because they think money rules the world.
I am one of the few that is honest to speak up. I am the kind of person that will stop the bad guy to help people. I am not a push over and respect everyone and their opinions. So since I do it, I expect others to do the same. Some may call this socialist, but I call it morals and values. This honesty of mine can hinder my experiences some times because I do judge people off of their actions. You can tell a lot about people by how they look at others, talk to others, or treat others. You don’t see this online…which is why some people online will stab others in the back. Again, this is something that online parents will pass down to their kids one day, whether they can fathom or even comprehend it.
Thanks Del for your honesty. Thank you for engaging here and joining in the conversation.
I don’t often find myself struggling for words… but with this story I did.
After a day to think about this situation, here is what I will say…As a parent of a special needs child as well as 3 “typical” children, I not only have sympathy for this Father and his child, I can also understand how parents of the children on the school bus must feel as well.
Generall, I do NOT care for any adult adressing any of my children in front of me when they see that my child is misbehaving- I believe it is more appropriate that the adult address ME. However, if my child is acting inappropriately and I am not there, by all means, tell my child so appropriately. Key word: APPROPRIATELY.
With regard to being a parent of a special needs child myself and with a keen understanding of a school system that is obviously broken… I think that father probably reached his wit’s end. Everyone has limits, but his choice for what to do next was a poor one. His language was probably chosen out of frustration and anger, yet still inappropriate. He should suffer the consequences… that is real life. Is it something I may have resorted to? Maybe, if pushed far enough! I am human after all.
For the future: Real life needs to include better treatment for his daughter and my son, all others who are “differently abled”, and those who for whatever reason are the target of bullying in schools. The future also needs to see Disciplinary action by every school system for bullying…ALL BULLYING, no excuses! There is a “No Tolerance” drug & alcohol policy in I’m sure just about every school…why do we tolerate children abusing one another?
Originally I had typed up a half joking around post about how you dont get on the bus – you wait for the bus to drop off the bully and then you kick the sh!t out of him.
I also know thats not the right answer the right answer is to not only call the police, go directly to the principal and the schoolboard – they if the bus cant be controlled (and that environment seemed unsafe to have just a sole driver they might need a bus monitor).
I grew up being picked on – until I was bigger then the bullies and when I fought back that because an issue. Certainly the bullies learned their lessons but then again I spent a lot of time in the principals office as well…
In this day in age there should be no tolerance for these actions.
I wrote a blog on this a couple of days or a few days ago… whenever I first saw the story. It really hit home with me, because my daughter has a developmental disability and wouldn’t be able to defend herself against this type of behavior either. Anyway, here is my blog post on it.
http://havenotscouldbe.blogspot.com/2010/09/arrested-for-defending-his-daughter-my.html
As a Dad of a daughter with disabilities, I was outraged and disgusted after hearing the bullying this girl went through. Yes, I do believe no child should become the target of bullying, but for a child with no way to defend themselves, it’s a different matter.
I don’t condone what this father did, but I do understand his rage. If after going through all the “proper channels”, you are going to feel frustrated and outraged. I hope some of our kids today will stand up for those that can’t stand up to these bullies.
I feel downright angry every time I hear stories like this, but as a supporter of disabilities rights, I hope this helps bring to light the need to help those that can’t help themselves.
This dad did go too far, but I think any parent can understand how he was feeling in this situation. Unfortunately, no one is showing these kids what respect is, or how to solve conflicts…and James Jones’ response is bullying the bullies – perpetuating that behavior.
This story is just another example of why it is so important for parents to teach their kids respect…and the important role that fathers play. It is essential for dads to show their sons what it means to be a man and treat women properly – and show their daughters what it means to be respected by a man.
Wow, I can’t even begin to imagine the rage that he must have been feeling. And its hard. When no one seems to be fighting for you you only have one option and that is defend your child.
Did he take it too far, oh yeah, but I don’t blame him.
When I was being bullied my Dad actually went over to the house of the bully. He sat down with the father and even talked to the kid. We got the root of the problem and it was fixed. That’s the course a parent should take.
I have a feeling I would do the SAME thing – right or wrong. Right now my daughter is only 2.5 years old, but I’m scared to death for the day she may have to deal with something like this.
He did what he had to do. A little excessive? Yeah, but as stated earlier, I bet the bullying will stop. They are saying he may get some jail time (days), I doubt it but I would have no problem paying that bill in defense of my kids.
hello – is it just me !! can any one explain why when i type in the yahoo browser “dadstalking.com” i get a different site yet whe i type it in google its ok? could this be a bug in my system or is any one else having same probs ?
alf